Founders Keepers Part 2 - Founders Deepers

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Streaming here

The founder’s journey can be messy, chaotic, and heartbreaking at times. Despite the stories of overnight successes we’re often fed in the media, starting and scaling a business is rarely a linear path forward. In part two of Commerce Chefs’ Founders Keepers series, Tom and Kyle share previously unreleased nuggets of wisdom from past founder guests all about the long and winding road to entrepreneurial success. They discuss the benefits of delusion in the business world, how a compelling narrative can keep a sense of purpose at the forefront, and why balance is so key for founders. The episode features raw and real clips from five founders who have seen massive success with their businesses. Sharing candid views on passion, purpose and finding joy along the way, the founders dig deep on what makes them tick and the big “why” that underscores it all.

Learn more about our guests:

Richa Gupta, President and Founder of GOOD FOOD FOR GOOD and Turmeric Teas

Natasha Vandenhurk, CEO of Three Farmers Foods.

Nate Justiss, Co-Founder of Distil Union.

Sophie Wilmer, General Manager of Kitras Art Glass.

Roberta Mantenuto, Co-Founder of Aria Vent Inc.

Transcript

Kyle Now we observe a founder in their natural habitat, graceful, stoic, smart and resolved. Their vision is clear. 

Tom My vision is clear. 

Kyle Wait, isn't this the same intro we used on episode five, Founders Keepers?  

Tom Yep, same one. We ran out of budget, buddy. How did we run out of budget? You might ask, Kyle. 

Kyle Oh, you know. It just happens, one day your bitcoins are worth $20K, next day Elon has a few extra minutes to tweet and you're moonlighting as a line cook.

Tom On that topic, and while I have you here, my friend, I just wanted to run over a $3,000 charge that I saw on our credit card a couple of weeks ago for a Brandy air fryer. You don't happen to know anything about that, do you, old buddy, old pal?

Kyle Nope, nope. Sucks that this intro sucks though. Hey, while I have you here, I'd like to run a business idea by you. It involves ice cream and an air fryer. I'm thinking of calling it instead of ice cream, hot cream. 

Tom Well, that's just milk. Welcome to Commerce Chefs, a quirky and thought-provoking show for future-focused commerce leaders. We're going to pick the world's most brilliant, inspiring and driven D2C visionaries, the commerce chefs, with riveting questions to uncover their secret ingredients at the intersection of passion, performance and leadership in practice. 

Kyle For the past decade, we've led teams of designers, strategists and digital wizards at one of the leading e-comm agencies in the country to help great brands become enduring classics. 

Tom And we're here to indefinitely borrow the strategies and pro tips that will make us all better leaders and make the brands we lead better, too. 

Kyle Too? Like part two? I see what you did there. Because this is a spin off of episode five, Finders Keepers, Part One. 

Tom No, like, as well, like make the brands we lead better as well. But yes, this is part two of Founders Keepers, Founders Deepers. 

Kyle Yes, yes, right, right, right. Sometimes starting a business can feel like you're swimming upstream with lead in your pockets. 

Tom Kyle, in what world would you go swimming with lead in your pockets? What, are you repairing an oil rig? 

Kyle Okay, take two. Sometimes starting a business can feel like the whole world is betting against you and you're just fighting to keep your vision alive. 

Tom This is why the journey of being a founder takes so much tenacity, perseverance and if we're honest, a healthy dose of delusion. 

Kyle And if delusion means success, then, Tom, I'll take a double serving. 

Tom You want fries with that shake? I think you have delusions of grandeur in spades, my friend. 

Kyle Well, thank you. I'm not exactly sure what grandeur means, but it sounds like my type of milkshake. 

Tom You may remember our last chat with Roberta Mantenuto, co-founder and CEO of Aria Vent, who knows a thing or two about the challenges that come along with the founder's journey. Here's a clip from our chat about her journey and how she pushed through the chaos to get to the top. 

Roberta You're going against the grain, you're putting your eggs and your time and a lot of money into a basket that you don't even know if it has a bottom or not. There is nothing certain and there's everything on the line. And if I were to give you those odds, like Tom, there's like a one in 200  chance that you'll ever make a dollar off of this. Like, would you ever place a bet on that? Not unless you're crazy, right? My dad has always been like that, and I definitely was a lot more nervous about everything than he was because he's been down this road before with other ventures. So I kind of followed his lead. Yeah, you're taking risks. You're taking chances. Nothing is sure. And you're saying, like, a lot of times people will say, well, if this was possible somebody would have done this already. You kind of have to take that notion and say, well, I'm going to try it. You know, like, that's not true. I'm going to try it this way. 

Kyle Being in the mindset of possibility rather than doubt is a theme we often see repeated with our guests.

Tom Blocking out the no thoughts and leaning into the yes thoughts can give you the means and motivation to keep going. Even when people start questioning your sanity, including yourself. 

Kyle It's the simultaneous believing in yourself and second guessing yourself. It's this quantum truth where both are true at the same time. 

Tom You know, Kyle, it's a bit like our friend, Schrodinger's cat. Man, it has some claws on it. Mean, mean, mean, but it can also be the nicest, cutest cat. You just never know till you take it out of its cage.

Kyle And that's the point, you have to act, you have to try and see and proverbially take the cat out of the box. You may remember from episode eight, we spoke to Sophie Wilmer, the general manager of Kitras Art Glass, and she touched on this aspect of the founders journey. 

Sophie I think that it's that you can do it all, you just can't do it all at once. I think that's really what you have to remind yourself and tell yourself, because you're overwhelmed by all the opportunities you could do and as a maker for sure, you could make anything really like I think you have to have patience. And if it doesn't all just happen right now, look at what is happening and just embrace that and it will grow. And I think also, like just ask a lot of questions, don't, do not be afraid to, like, go to a store, go into a store and just ask and be like, would you sell this product? And if the store's like, no, be like, why not? And not in a why not like aggressive way, be like, well, what could I fix about it? Do you need a bar code? And if they say like, oh, maybe you need bar code and you don't know what a bar code is like, will you know where I could get one? And they might know or they might say, hey, this person over here just did that they might know or just Google it or I think so much of how I didn't come from a business background at all, like at all. Like I did go to school for business. And a lot of what I learned was obviously like I heard a lot of the intimate way our business ran. But when I got into the wholesale world, when I was going to shows, I didn't know anything and I just, I'd listen, and I was like a fly on the wall watching other people. I eavesdropped people in the elevators, conversations. You just kind of have to you have to be a sponge and absorb it all and then figure out what works and just don't be afraid to try stuff like try it, it doesn't work, try it small, it doesn't work, cool. Let it go.

Kyle Let it go.

Tom No, no, no, no, no. Really, the main thesis from Sophie is don't be afraid to try new things, test things out and let go of what's not working. 

Kyle In our team at PB&J, we constantly ask what we could do better or what we could do differently. Just because something served us six months ago or even six days ago, doesn't mean it serves us today. We need to continually ask this and continually evolve and reframe failure as a natural and needed part of that evolution. 

Tom So in a cycle of constant reevaluation, there has to be something that remains constant and that needs to be your story, your why, your purpose. 

Kyle The story behind your brand can serve as a grounding force and a focal point to hang on to, even when everything seems to be going all over the place. 

Tom It acts as that constant reminder to yourself of why you're doing this, why you're going through all of this when you fail or trip or slip or just get lost for a bit. It's the thing that keeps you on track. 

Kyle During our conversation in episode one with Natasha Vandenhurk, the CEO and co-founder Three Farmers, she mentioned that the story behind their brand helped to keep a sense of focus at the forefront when times were tough.

Natasha We've just gone through some rebranding to bring that story and that purpose more centre stage so that it is more clear for our consumers. And our new tagline is "grounded in goodness" and it is that purpose that grounds us every single day because, like we just mentioned, there's challenges that arise all of the time and we need to stay grounded in what we're doing here, and our team needs to understand that and our shareholders need to understand that, and absolutely, our consumers need to understand that, so it's just a super important part of the whole business. It's absolutely worth it but I would also say that it's a journey. It's not like you get to wake up one day, I mean, maybe it is that way for some companies, but for us, we've sort of grown into our purpose and I think we're every day refining it.  And we've finally come to this point where it has been boiled down and completely simplified and we're trying to live that in every aspect of our business. But I think it can take time to get there sometimes, so my piece of advice would be just don't beat yourself up if you can't boil it down into a really simple small phrase, right? It could take time to get there. You just need to keep asking the question and keep refining it as you go. 

Tom Natasha talks about refining your purpose over time. And I love that idea because so often we're fed these fantasies of overnight success and knowing your full purpose from the get go. But it's rarely ever that simple.

Kyle It's true. It's not a switch that you turn on. The idea of a deeper sense of purpose that guides you is sort of like a muscle you need to develop by being committed to a daily practice. 

Tom That reminds me, I do need to hit the gym later. 

Kyle Let's play underpack, overpack. 

Tom I'm going to need a little bit more than that if I'm going to agree to play this game with you. 

Kyle It's the game.

Tom Okay. 

Kyle Okay, so you're saying I underpacked that explanation?

Tom Yeah. 

Kyle You get the hang of it. You got that. I need to know, did I underpack or overpack? Right? Situation: let's start with an easy one. The day I went to the water park and packed my sunscreen towel, flip flops, innertube, my water wings, a Bunsen burner and a raincoat. But I forgot my swimsuit.

Tom Definitely underpacked. But if I'm honest, you also overpacked. I mean, it's really, that's the worst of both worlds. But at least you brought your sunscreen - safety first. Okay, let me try this, see if I understand this game, Kyle. Situation: that time I prepared for a big proposal, came up with pages of notes on why this is going to cost this much, and they just looked at the number and they said, let's go for it. When can we get started? 

Kyle Overpacked. But that's just good practice. Right? And who doesn't love a good 60 page proposal? Alright. Here's another e-comm truth bomb. The situation that time everyone around the table insisted we QA for Internet Explorer even after Microsoft formally abandoned it and we confirm through analytics no one was ever using that browser. 

Tom Overpacked, no question. No other details needed. RIP, IE, you feel me?

Kyle Tom, IE was extremely underpacked from the beginning. 

Tom Boom, roasted. Okay, situation: that time we decided to start a business together out of design school. 

Kyle Underpacked. Definitely underpacked. But like Dora, we love a good adventure and we also like singing about maps. 

Tom Kyle, there is no map. But we did it. 

Kyle We did it. 

Tom We did it, yeah! 

Kyle And we're back with Richa Gupta, who you may remember from episode one. She's the founder of Good Food for Good and knows all about the long, bendy road to finding and living purpose in your business. 

Richa So for me, it's very personal. It's driven by me experiencing and knowing what I don't want and when you go through that, when you go through that dark period of yes, you're making good money, I was making good money, paying all the bills. Good house, good daughter. But I was so sad. I had not been this sad in my life. When you go through that, you would do anything to do things that actually bring joy to your life and doing this brought joy to me, so I knew, there's no way I'm looking back. There was no Plan B. I went through this. This is the idea that gave me joy. And it continues to give me joy, even with challenges, right? Like, there's no place, there are no challenges. It continues to bring joy to me. It continues to bring satisfaction to me. Like, I think that's why at least in an entrepreneurial venture for purpose to be connected to a person is kind of important because that's what drives you or continues to drive you to keep doing it. I think joy is very contagious. So is satisfaction. And when you are happy, you don't have to force happiness right? When you are happy, it shows and it's something that people around you, it brings joy to people around you because you are happy doing what you're doing, you're not miserable. Every challenge is an opportunity. You don't see them as a mountain to climb. That's what we do. Like I tell everyone, I'm like, when you're an entrepreneur, it's like you're being and you're on a battlefield and this is what you're doing, right?

Tom I love what Richa says about joy being contagious. And for her, it's a huge reason for why she gets up every morning and pushes through the waves. 

Kyle It's true. I think joy is that secret sauce that is a magnet for success and a great value to lean on in your decision making. 

Tom Making decisions that are aligned with your brand's core values can help you grow sustainably and ensure longevity down the road. In episode five, we spoke to Roberta Mentenuto. Here's what she had to say. 

Roberta I think it's important because it kind of, you know, sometimes you can get caught up in the hurricane of putting out fires and little things that seem like the end of the world. And then at the end of the day, you know, when you have this humility, it grounds you and it's like, okay, in the grand scheme of things, we are in the green, things are trending right and up, like everything is going to work out. And you kind of have to bring yourself down back to this thing. And like I said, always going back to the big picture, I find that to be very challenging because, you know, when you're working every day, you kind of have tunnel vision. You're only looking at what's right in front of you and having this perspective kind of like opens you up like a really good example is claims with shipping, right? So my team is so stressed all the time about claims with shipping. You know, this package is broken. We're out of product. Like, what are we going to do, like guys? It's just one situation, let's just move forward to resolve what needs to be resolved. Like I said, we're in the green, everything's okay. Like let's carry on. Just be grateful that somebody ordered our product to begin with, right? 

Kyle So for Richa, joy was the value she leaned on to reframe things. For Roberta, it was a recipe of gratitude, humility and perspective. 

Tom Even if you keep your values top of mind, making big decisions can still be a challenge for leaders. Richa continued. 

Richa I'm a simple person, right, like, I just go with the gut, I feel it has served me well to listen to my inner voice. And I feel that's one thing that I would if I have to give advice, though I'm no expert to anyone, would be to to pay attention to what your gut, your inner voice is telling you. And you have all the answers, like you don't need to go out there searching for an answer. It's in there. It might take time to come, to recognize, but we have all the answers. Just need to hear.

Kyle When in doubt, go with your gut. 

Tom Kyle, I thought I just told you that I need to get back to the gym, you know how sensitive I am about my gut right now.

Kyle Maybe lean into being sensitive with your gut, not about your gut. 

Tom Oh, that's a really good perspective, Kyle. 

Kyle And that's a really good reminder that perspective is another huge aspect of the founder's journey and a common thread that's come up in almost every conversation we've had on the show. Some of the best advice I've ever been given is to take time each week to think about what you're not thinking about. 

Tom As Nate Justiss, the founder of Distil Union, shared with us in episode two, taking a moment to just sit outside and just breathe can often be the most productive thing you can do as a founder. 

Nate And that's about balance. And it's a moment in which you can sort of reset your perspective, try and eliminate stress, breathe while looking outside at nature and realize that there's a bigger world out there than just your business. 

Kyle We've said it before and we'll say it again. Leading is messy and there is no map. 

Tom Have we said that before? 

Kyle Well, now we have. Let the record show that we all feel lost, alone, scared, frustrated, happy, excited, optimistic. 

Tom Often in the same day or a span of two hours or at the same time. 

Kyle And on this beautiful, messy journey, it's a balance of what and when to pack. But make sure to pack these three things. 

Tom Firstly, you've got to believe, can I get a witness? 

Kyle Secondly, you've got to act. You can always change paths along the way, but you'll never get anywhere if you don't start moving. 

Tom And thirdly, even though there is no map, you do have a compass, your purpose and your values. 

Kyle Tom, what's a compass? 

Tom Oh, it's like an old school GPS that doesn't actually give you directions, but it points a needle in one direction. 

Kyle They were a good band. Underrated. 

Tom Speaking of underrated global phenomena, remember to trust yourself. At the end of the day, you're all you've got.

Kyle And you've got this. 

Tom There you have it, that's episode 12 of Commerce Chefs. Thank you so much for listening. 

Kyle We hope you'll take away some inspiring insights from these founders and previously unreleased clips. 

Tom If you're looking for even more insights and recipes for success, make sure to join the Commerce Chefs community at commercechefs.com/community and follow us on social @commercechefs.

Kyle Now, this is the last episode of season one. Oh, I know. Cheers. 

Tom But don't fret. We have some new content brewing for you. 

Kyle Make sure to tune back in on July 22nd for the kickoff to our summer series and listen to some previously unreleased, long-form interviews with some of our favourite guests and founders from season one. 

Tom Then we'll be back for our second season in the fall. Lastly, if you like this episode and you want to support us, (you know that you do) make sure to hit the subscribe button and leave us a five star rating and review. Until next time, this has been a dash of Tom. 

Kyle And a pinch of Kyle. We'll be cooking with you in two weeks. 

Tom Friggin. It's like when I say Fs, it doesn't like Fs. Because I was saying future-focused commerce leaders. 

Kyle Stop swearing so much.

Tom F you mic. Okay, here we go. You want fries with that shake? Should I just leave out all the Fs? You want ries with that shake?

Kyle Your mic's trying to get a rise out of you. 

Tom Oh, okay. Let's start again.