Secret Sauce | Aaron Powell

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Streaming here

Aaron Powell, the Founder and CEO of Bunch Bikes, has mastered the magic formula for converting strong community bonds into customers. In our first episode of the Commerce Chefs summer series, listen to Kyle and Tom’s full, unaired interview with Aaron as he shares his secrets on creating community referrals, building a six-star customer service system, and even his experience behind the scenes of Shark Tank.

Learn more about our guest:

Aaron Powell, Founder & CEO @ Bunch Bikes

Transcript

Tom: Welcome to Commerce Chefs, a quirky and thought-provoking show for future-focused commerce leaders. We're going to pit the world's most brilliant, inspiring and driven DTC visionaries, the Commerce Chefs, with riveting questions to uncover their secret ingredients at the intersection of passion, performance and leadership in practice.

Kyle: For the past decade, we've led teams of designers, strategists and digital wizards at one of the leading eComm agencies in the country to help brave brands become enduring classics.

Tom: And we're here to indefinitely borrow the strategies and pro tips that will make us all better leaders and make the brands we lead better, too.

Kyle: Now that we're officially finished our first season, we've decided to spice things up a little bit over the summer for your listening enjoyment.

Tom: Every two weeks we're releasing some of our favourite interviews from season one, but in long form so we can share even more delicious insights with you.

Kyle: The secret good stuff that you didn't get to hear. So listen in. Grab a marg-ear-ita.

Tom: No, no, that's awful. Awful sounding and probably tasting, too.

Kyle: OK, OK. Grab a daiq-ear-i. Enjoy some easy, breezy listening by the poolside with your favorite podcast hosts and let us know what you think in the review section. Today, we're featuring Aaron Powell, founder of Bunch Bikes, a superstar interview we did for our 10th episode Brands that Command.

Tom: In this interview, Aaron discusses how he started bunch bikes and turned his customers into a community of advocates. We also chatted about his philosophy on creating a seamless concierge style customer experience and what it looks like within his team.

Kyle: Plus, if you stay till the very end, Aaron shares all the secrets of being on Shark Tank.

Tom: Whoa, whoa. We weren't supposed to tell them that.

Kyle: We... Oh, no. Crap.

Tom: Way to screw it up, man.

Kyle: Yeah, well, without further ado, then, here's Aaron's interview.

Aaron: My name is Aaron Powell. I'm the founder and CEO of Bunch Bikes. Bunch Bikes is a direct-to-customer company. We make electric family cargo bikes and basically imagine a bike with a box on the front. You could put up to four kids in and we ship them all over the country and we've been doing it for the last four years.

Tom: That's amazing. To completely honest, when I first looked at Bunch Bike, I was like, this is crazy. I was like, I don't how do you use it if it feels unwieldy? But I watched some videos, kind of looked at use case scenario like super, super cool. So before we kind of, I guess, get into this, like, where did this idea come from and what's that process look like of building this brand from the wheels up?

Aaron: You know, I had a previous e-commerce business selling jewelry online. I mentioned in the Shark Tank episode, but it wasn't really fulfilling on a personal level. It's like it was making me some money, but it wasn't like I was kind of looking for what's the thing that is like kind of in line with my values that's going to make an impact on the world. And I just kind of had my eyes open as I just went through life. And, you know, we ended up on a vacation in Europe, we were in Sweden specifically. And I saw bikes similar to what we sell there and families riding around and I thought and I've been into bikes for ten years as a hobby and I've got kids now. It's becoming harder and harder to get things done around the neighbourhood, like with my kids in tow. And I just saw a solution to my own problem and thought, hey, I just want to buy one of these for myself. Found that there wasn't really anybody making them and said, hey, like, let's just give this a try, see if there's anybody else out there like me. And pretty much from the beginning, we've been kind of behind demand. The customers were just out there ready to order from the first company that kind of showed up. So we kind of hit the ground running with it.

Tom: So what like what does that look like then? I mean, we obviously are or maybe not, obviously, but we are passionate and obsessed with founder life DTC brands. You've done a great job of describing, you know, if I were a stranger and I had never come across Bunch before what this is. But how have you found building that brand, building that awareness, bringing this thing into existence that people were looking for, but they didn't really know how to find it or even that they wanted it until they saw it and went, yeah!

Aaron: And that's the ongoing challenge. And I knew from the very beginning, like looking at the market, say, OK, I'm a guy who wants this. There's got to be other people like me. Odds are, there's 350 million people here. There's got to be someone else out there like me. But there's nobody done it. There's companies that have tried and gone out of business. So it's like, is there no market or is it just because nobody's done it well? So I knew from the beginning the challenge was awareness, like, you know, I'd been into bikes for ten years, didn't know the product category existed, and I would have bought it, you know, if I did. So I knew from the beginning one awareness is a challenge. So I need to get in front of millions of people somehow. And at the time I was like, maybe, maybe I get on the Ellen Show and then Ellen kind of took a turn for the worst, like stay away from Ellen. And then I was like, well, you know, Shark Tank was kind of the way that happened. But also from the beginning, it's just been community and customer to customer, grassroots, word of mouth. Every one of these customers, those initial customers are people just like me who are so excited to finally have like found this thing and just promoting on Instagram or wherever that they became like the most excited people, right? And they're like the early adopters. They're going to buy it, you know, and they're going to wait six months to get it. They're going to put their money down. And then, you know, it's like they're going to take a chance on a company they never heard of because they're so into the idea. And then it's like a very visible thing, too, because, you know, like even down to the branding, I intentionally put this, like, big logo, like on the side of the bike, just because they're the rolling billboard. You ride it around your neighborhood, people see it. And I wanted one short little word there on the side, like "Bunch," what is, go to Google type in Bunch, like finding it if you're out and about. And what I learned from my own personal experience riding around is that I couldn't get this bike down the street without somebody stopping me wanting to talk about it. I'd go downtown, people would be asking me if they could take pictures and put them on Instagram. I'm like, there's something special here. And that same experience is being played out day after day with all of our new customers where it's just like it's just getting enough bikes out there into the wild to where it's just catching on organically and even early days, like if somebody was in Denver and wanted to buy a bike I was like, well, we don't have any like I'd go through the customer list on Shopify, OK, who's in Denver. And I would literally just like text or send them in emails like, hey, I've got somebody in your area that would like we'd love to try this. And 19 times out of twenty they'd be like, oh my gosh, yeah, please put him in contact with me. I'd love to tell more. They were so open to it like moms meeting up with moms in parks. It was you know, they were just kind of unofficially doing it, and then when it kind of became like a repeated thing, like, OK, clearly Denver's a hot area for us. And I don't want to just keep asking the same person over and over again. Like, I was like, we need to, like, make something official here. And so we made this Bunch ambassador program, which basically made it official, like, hey, you're going to be an official ambassador. We're going to compensate you for doing test drives for people on the website and I think most of them would do it for no compensation because they were doing that in the beginning. They were asking us like, you know, hey, maybe we can make it like they were asking you to make an ambassador programs and I was like, yeah, sure. OK, let's do it. And so we've got this really unique program that's unlike anything else that anybody's doing, which is like you can literally go on our website and meet up with one of our customers, try out their bike, talk to them about it. And, you know, and then COVID happened and kind of destroyed all of it. And now we're rebuilding it. But yeah, because nobody wanted to meet up with anybody. Right. So but it's been a really cool way to kind of grow it independently of like dealers or bike shops or, you know, retailers or anything like that, which if you just saw the bike on the floor in retail, I don't think it communicates the product, right? It's just you just see this and you think, what is this like? You know, you don't get it. You have to you have to almost talk to somebody who's using it on a daily basis, somebody who's had their life changed by this product and like authentically communicate that, you know, one to one in-person has been the way that we've been doing that.

Kyle: And it's also like this connection to we talk, you know, you talk a lot about like the customer review is like such a critical piece in e-commerce and this is almost an extension of that. Like they're not just test driving the product. They're speaking with someone who's experienced it and getting that, like, authentic...

Aaron: It's like getting a review in real time.

Kyle: Yeah. Which is like imagine how powerful that is. Like, that's so cool.

Aaron: I mean, reviews are of course, they're an essential part and the hardest part about selling like an expensive product online. You know, like our bikes retail between $5,000-$6,500. And the hardest thing to communicate is trust, like do I trust this much money over the Internet site unseen, you know, and the reviews help. And actually the reviews are really, really good because we've got a great product and the customers are so enthusiastic about it, they're happy to share, you know, maybe more than in a lot of things because these products really are changing their lives and their lifestyle. Right about the same time I had this idea to do this, another company started doing the same thing. This is brand Outer. They sell outdoor furniture and you can actually go to somebody's backyard and check out their furniture and stuff. And so me and Jake with Outer like we go back and forth bouncing ideas off each other. But to this day, like, I don't know anybody else doing something similar, just kind of our brands, like trying to connect in a new way, just a very community driven kind of grassroots, you know, a company that you can make a connection with and the people. And the idea is, like a lot of our early customers, like they you know, they're bike enthusiasts. They see the impact from an environmental standpoint, just a community standpoint, just like in their cities, like they want bikes to be more of a thing. They don't want to be the only person riding his bike around. They want other people to have the idea catch on. So they're so excited to share in the greater mission and vision of what we're doing. They want like a local bike gang. They can go, you know, ride with or whatever. They don't want to be the only ones. Yeah. So they're trying to spread that like, you know, we've got a woman in Washington, D.C. she's probably referred 10 customers to us this year. It's incredible. She's just like, you know, she's in all the Facebook groups telling moms about it. She's like meeting up with people. It's like, you know, and D.C. is such like a perfect area, a lot of infrastructure, a lot of places to go, a lot of parks. And like, you know, it's really catching on there, you know, with a lot of thanks to her, they're just really getting it going at the grassroots level.

Tom: So we didn't really know that to that extent. But there was the question that we had and that was like, what is the role that community has played in your brand building? I mean, it just really seems like to that to that depth and kind of personal extent, like speaking for myself anyway. Like, I haven't heard or seen such an awesome example of that one to one...

Aaron: And it comes down to authenticity and trust too because, yeah other companies have what they call an ambassador program, which is kind of different than what we're doing, which is basically we're going to give you free product and swag and you're going to post on your Instagram. And everyone knows that you didn't pay for this and they know that you're just promoting it and showing the company. And so it's like there's this like, inauthentic kind of thing to it, although you do get more awareness and, you know, people and seeing your product and buying it anyways. But, you know, the people that are sharing on social media and stuff for us, like it's very much authentic, like, yeah, even when we do kind of such partnerships with influencers or whatever, it's almost always like, you know, they'd almost be willing to pay for the product. And sometimes they even are just they're just so excited about it. They just want you know, and it comes across very authentic because they're actually using it on a daily basis. Right. It's not just something they got for free because they could. And I tend to stay away from people like that that are just looking for a handout. Right. So but even in the beginning, it's like there's a lot of ways you can sell a product like this. And, you know, a lot of people, you know bike companies, they sell through bike shops. Right. It's like, well, my background is in direct-to-customer. That's what I know. That makes sense to me. And getting that direct feedback loop from the end user. And and one reason the bike doesn't appeal to me is because a lot of times you get like Joe College Kid working the counter and, you know, he's facilitating test drives. What does he know about kids? And, you know, riding with kids, it's like nothing like how can you communicate, like, how valuable this product is. Right. So, you know, and how many how many moms with kids are working in bike shops like it's not many. So it's not just moms, it's dads too. But yeah, that's like that was kind of like just me. It was like kind of like just this logical progression of like, OK, well, if I'm not going to go that way and I want to be able to do this. Well, this is something we could try that makes sense to me and just kind of evolved organically kind of over time.

Tom: Yeah. And you're you bang on. I mean, unless you have kids, you have that pain point of like, how the heck am I trying to do this? And I can't have someone strapped to me in a bucket and then somebody duct taped to like the front handlebars or a wagon like. It could be a game changer.

Aaron: There's the gear and the snacks and the oh, you know, the water bottle, all the stuff that goes into getting a child from A to B, that if you're not living it day to day, you just don't know. And it really, like, you know, I iterated so much on the product in the beginning because I was the guy with two young kids. I was the ideal customer. I'm using the product every day, multiple times a day. And so it's like I kept feeling these pain points, like, well, this needs to be better because of this. It's like somebody else might just see a bike with a box on it, but I see all the little things like make it more comfortable and like, you know, like, well, we swap out for this tire, you know, the kids are actually more comfortable bouncing around less on their bottoms. You know, it's like they're, you know, they're whining less. So this is this is this is the tire we're going to use. Right. It's like these little things. It just kind of adds up.

Tom: Yeah. Complaints can get tiring.

Kyle: Very nice. Thank you. Very nice. That's the end of the interview.

Aaron: I just got the point actually it took me a little too long

Tom: Oh it's OK, we got around to it. Yeah. Right. OK. Yeah. I can't help it. It's a problem.

Kyle: I want to dig in a little bit to like product design and brand, because I kind of like you're talking about like the intentionality in the product design. And I think that's such a big thing. And one of the areas we're exploring in this episode is like brand equity and does brand matter. And so think about like you've got such an intentional product and probably I don't, you know better, but I think it's pretty unique and there may not be anything else in the market when something if something else comes out that similar or comparable, do you see the brand like that, whatever that means to you? Do you see brand playing a part in helping protect what you've built, or is there a lot that's just in the product design like do you see brand interplaying with that in the future?

Aaron: Yeah, it's almost 50/50. So like number one is like, you got to have a product. I worked for years, iterated, finally got the product market fit that I'm really happy with it and the reviews are incredible on it. But that's only half the picture, you know, a bike. There's really nothing proprietary about a bicycle like it can be easily, well, I mean, not easily, but it can be knocked off and somebody can have something similar that does the same thing. Right. Like it's not like it's a new technology or anything like that. So to that degree, it's like there's only a limited defense on the product side. So but the other thing, the other half of that, though is the whole experience around a bicycle, it's not just that moment of purchase and then using the product and you never have an issue with it. There's things like, you know, warranty, something stops working. You need to get it worked on. OK, what does that experience look like? How are you handling that as a brand? How is the customer being taken care of? It's just it's everything down to delivery and communication and all the things that like, you know, I'm buying this $5,000 product, like I shouldn't have to lift a finger to have, like, this perfect experience and have all my needs taken care of. And if you're not doing that, then it's just the customer is just let down. And so much about what I think goes into our brand is that we're values driven. Like everything we that comes up, any situation, any new problem or challenge, it's all run through these filters of what are our values and what do we believe in. How do we think that this should be handled? What's new to do right by the customer? Almost like just the golden rule, right? Like if it was me, how would I want that brand to treat me? It goes so much more like if it was just a product on the shelf, it's like you're kind of relying on the retailer to provide a lot of that. And that's, you know, every retailer is going to do it differently. Right. But, you know, when it's direct to customer, it's like everything is on you. It's like if something's lost in shipping, it's your fault. How are you going to handle it? Right. Or if you're maybe a brand that's not as kind to their customers, you're going to say as long as it seems that these are warehouse, you're responsible. But in the end, like I look at actually what Zappos has done, and it's all about exceeding those customer expectations. So it's down to the little things like, you know, we typically get the bikes shipped out within 24 hours and then delivered within four or five days. You know, it's a big product, ship via freight. But we kind of had this revelation that if anything, any little thing along the pipeline doesn't go perfectly. That bike might take six, seven days to get delivered. It might take two weeks. You know, all these little things can happen, at which point now the customer is disappointed. So we actually just change on the website. Look, you can expect your bike within two weeks, right? And then if you get it within four or five days, you're like, oh, my God, that's awesome. It's like, well, you know, nothing changed about anything on the logistical side. It's just we're now exceeding your expectations. And so that's actually, you know, value number one is like we're going to exceed customer expectations, whatever that means. And so I give a lot of leeway to my customer service people like look like, don't come ask me, what do I do here? Can I do this can I do that, just make the customer happy. Whatever would make them happy, just do that. I don't even care what the dollar value is because I'm concerned with the long term, not the short term, the long term value of the brand versus short term financial things. OK, yeah, we lost $500 because we did X, Y and Z for the customer. But now they're an advocate for life and they're going to tell everybody that they know about it. And hey, maybe they even sell a bike to a neighbour or two, and it's like that $500 is nothing compared to sell another $5,000 bike or something like that.

Tom: One of the themes you were touching on there, Aaron, which is you're right, you are a high consideration product. Somebody typically is not just going to jump on a whim, see this, buy it, you know, and there you go. This isn't deodorant or macaroni. So how does that brand experience of a specialty, high consideration product like yours, how does it need to differ from more of a mass retail or mass product consumable approach?

Aaron: It almost just piggybacks off what I was saying where the customer experience is a big part of it, and, you know, I like to think of it almost like as a concierge experience or there's a great example that the Airbnb guys put out an interview, which is they called it like the the seven star experience or something like that where, you know, a five star experience, you know, somebody's going to give you a five star review. They're going to do that if you delivered everything as expected. Hey, it's a great product. I got it in time. You know, it was easy experience buying it. No, no issues, no frustrations. Five stars. And that's it. You know, it's just a transaction. You gave me everything that I asked for. You get to review. We go our separate ways. But you think beyond that, it's like, OK, what what would a six star experience look like, you know? And, you know, for us, it's like, OK, well, what if we promise two weeks and you've got it in four days, right? And then I got Zappos does it all the time with repeat customers there, they automatically just upgrade overnight shipping sometimes just to surprise the customer. Right. It's like, wow. Oh, wow, that was awesome. You know, for us, it's like, you know, the way we deliver the bike, the rest of the bike industry, they're shipping out bikes in parts right, so you have to kind of build it. There's like some assembly required, right? It's like but I look at our product. It's like this is this is different than a bicycle. This is... It's almost closer to shipping a motorcycle to somebody. Would you ask somebody to build their motorcycle right now, like when they got it? Like you do it, you know, it's this big thing that's, you know, and if it takes us and we do this every day, it takes us like four to five hours to put one of these things together. Like we're going to ship that to the customer, ask them to do that, like, doesn't make any sense. So we're going to ship these fully assembled, tuned up, ready to go. You open the box. All you have to do is just take it out and you're ready to ride it. That's all you want to do. You get the bike. All you want to do is write it right. And so we try to reduce that friction as much as possible. Just you get the bike. There it is. And you ride away. And your smile is right from the very beginning. And so, you know, that's a six star experience. You don't have to lift a finger, you know, to get the tools out. You don't have to pull the manual and turn it upside down. It's like it's just ride away and go. And so we're always looking for ways like how can we make it more magical, more, you know, less friction, easier, like I said the concierge experience. And I tell my customer service people, look, when somebody calls on the phone, your goal is to keep them on the phone as long as possible to satisfy every question or whatever they have. They're the most important thing in the world when they're on that phone with you. And I've had conversations with customers that go on an hour and a half and we stop talking about the bike at like minute five. I've made so many friends this business, like I could go any city in the country and probably have a couch to crash on because it's been more than just this transaction. Right? It's like I know about your family now. I know like you, I've got customers I text on a regular basis and we're not talking about bike stuff. It's just, you know, I just have made these connections with people because we've made ourselves available to do so. And, you know, it's so it's just and it's taking everything that they say about, hey, well, I think, you know, I didn't have a great experience because of this. And it's just apologizing, owning it. Hey, we could do better. And we're going to make sure that we're better about that in the future. You know, and just acknowledging that they have a voice and it's, you know, everything that goes in the customer experience is what makes selling high, I guess, high consideration products, as you said, online, different from mass retail, because mass retail, the product is all you have because the product's not perfect, well they're not going to contact the brand. But when you're selling these things, the customers, they have more questions. They feel more direct connection to you as a brand and they're going to come to you first and how you handle it when they do come to you, that's everything, because, you know, a lot of our best reviews have come from the most upset customers. And it's the way that you turn it around and make it right to them that just, you know, that's everything.

Tom: We have a saying that we use at PB&J and it's sort of the idea of it might not actually even be your fault, but it definitely is your problem. It's your responsibility.

Aaron: There you go. That's a that's a better way of saying the same.

Tom: But you're bang on. You're at the end of the day, it is your problem to work with and how you choose to work with that customer, how you choose to solve that problem is if what I'm hearing you say is that's the defining factor on the experience end after the tablestake of having a great product.

Aaron: What I tell my guys is like, look, if the customer has to ask you to do something to make something right then we messed up, like we should be so proactive that we know there's an issue. It's like, so I will try to get them like, if there's a shipping delay or some weird thing happens or they temporarily lose it inside the warehouse. You know, it's happens, things happen in freight. It's like as soon as we know about that and we know it's not going to meet the expected delivery time, let the customer know, refund their $199 shipping, which is significant. Right. Like and they're like, wow. And they're surprised. Like they don't even mind the delay at that point because they know that somebody on the other end is caring and is on top of it and it just communicates to them that we are going to make sure this bike gets to you one way or the other, you know.

Tom: So you have this beautiful symbiotic interplay between the table stakes of having just like a magnificent product and building on top of that and almost like armoring, building, trust, building that connection we touched on originally, this idea of community. So you now have a name that people recognize or very quickly can come to understand what it means and what it evokes for them and what that experience is going to be like. So as your brand grows, how have you found that that adoption has has grown or come with it just based on the fact that, oh, Bunch is putting this out? I want to take a look, because I know it's going to be it's going to be great.

Aaron: As we've grown beyond a single product company, what does that mean. In the beginning it's like I'm scratching my own itch. I've got a bike for families. It's going to be the best bike for families. It's going to be everything that I want that I need here. But then in the course of doing business, you see all these opportunities tangential to what you're doing and you talk to customers who they're interested, but they want this, this and this. And it's not quite what you have. You know, we've got customers for special needs. You know, they've got a 15 year old child with Down's syndrome. It's like, OK, they want a bike like this, but not exactly like what we have. And so that's just one example that we found out early on is like, oh, people are buying these bikes to ride with their dogs, like their 10 year old dog who can't walk anymore, who has cancer, or is just old or is too big to fit in a trailer like OK, that's like a big chunk of our customer base is dog people. OK, how do we make this bike more specific for dogs? Let's put a door like so like over time you see all these opportunities and it starts to become overwhelming to the point of like we can't do everything and you have to start making choices on what fits in with the path that we're currently on and what's divergent from that. And is this a shiny object that's distracting? Right. And so in the beginning, it was a very, very narrow focus. And I had to see, OK, what are these opportunities we want to take advantage of? And do we have to broaden the scope of what the long term vision is and what the goal is and what the brand's about to be able to encompass these things? And should we? Right? We've got a guy in Dallas who's bought 12 bikes for his ice cream business and he's like, you know, he's selling ice cream in these neighbourhoods. Like, well, is this a bad thing? Do I want to stop supporting this because he doesn't he's not putting kids in the bike like, OK, so where's the ice cream bike fit into the mission of bikes for family. So what is the brand about? Number one's like, OK, it's going to be about quality. Whatever we put out, whatever the price point, whatever the product, quality is going to be the focus. We're never going to sell like mass market, like cheap stuff. Like that's not the goal here. Whatever we do, it's quality. Then secondly, we're just going to we're going to impact and enrich lives, whatever that means. We're going to broaden it to that wide, whether it's somebody buying a bike for their small business, whether it's somebody with special needs or a dog owner or a preschool that wants to bike their kids to the park or an in-home daycare, or a company that wants to do them for local deliveries or a pizza company or whatever it is like, you know, or a bike to an arboretum to do groundskeeping or, you know, or a city in New Jersey who wants to buy bikes for their compost program. Like there's all these different use cases for this product. And it's about impacting and enriching lives.

Tom: So, Aaron, have you found then that I don't want to put words in your mouth, but is this true for you that you've been able to leverage the Bunch brand to have exponential impact on the world in a positive way?

Aaron: You know, I think so early on, I, I kind of had to paths in front of me, I you know, I thought this this kind of bike just needs to exist. Maybe I just need to go. It would seem to be like a retail, maybe cargobike.com. And I'll just like I'll just be like a kind of e-commerce site dropship or get in other brands or whatever. And when I looked, it's like, can you build a brand around a company who's just selling other people's stuff? And what I wanted, though, is like, I'm a guy who's driven by values. I know I take care of customers. And in a way like if somebody is going to be kind of leading the growth of this category, I want it to be somebody like me who's about the mission and purpose behind it. And is not just looking for you know, it's not just looking for a buck. You know, if I was doing this to make money, it would have stopped being motivating a long time ago because I've yet to see a pile of cash in front of me right now. So it's not really about that.

Tom: I mean, that's huge and it speaks to our soul. I know so.

Kyle: And when it's such a big leap, like, what was that just for, I know we're kind of coming in here, but tell us a bit about that journey from going from like a successful e-comm business that was largely, like you said, like dropship base or other products, you were selling into this like high touch product design, brand building experience.

Aaron: Yeah, it's been a journey for sure. Like literally my first product I ever sold on Amazon, like seven or eight years ago was like I just imported some jewelry from Europe and I literally just threw it up on like a generic product listing or something on Amazon, like there was no brand. I'm just slinging a product. And but immediately I was making money like it was I think it was my first day. I was like, I hope I sell one of these things. And I sold 30 and the next day I sold 40. And it's like, oh my God. Like I was out of stock in three days. And it's like, OK, this is pretty cool. But by the time I was back in stock, you know, this is a kind of a hot trend that was just taking off. And there's now a dozen other people doing the same thing. Three months later, all of a sudden I don't stand out anymore. Now I'm selling one a day, maybe. It's like, OK, so how do I stand out amongst crowd of people selling the same thing? It's like, well, comes down to branding and presentation. If you're not going to differentiate on product like that was the thing I was able to do next. But in the end, it's like even that wasn't really enough because I don't own my distribution. I'm selling on Amazon. I'm just kind of like I'm just selling to people who are just searching for the generic product news, get mine because it's higher in the search or whatever. But they don't know anything about me or the company. They're not going on my website, you know. And so I decided whatever I do next one, I need to I need to own the experience. And I don't want to be dependent on some marketplace or some third party channel. Like right now, zero percent of my income is from from Amazon. Right. And and it's almost exclusively on our website. And so I'm able to manage the whole communication and everything around the product and the education of it and everything to where the messaging isn't getting lost on somebody else's platform. So that was a part of it, too. I was just I just I was so dependent upon Amazon and in that product, it really just it was just me making some money and achieve some personal goals of like freedom and location freedom and like time freedoms. Yeah Amazon's great because I don't have to pack and ship product. They're shipping out of their warehouses. Cool. But what's the purpose? You know, like how is this impacting the world? I'm just like, you know, it's actually I don't I don't even like this product, really. It's I feel like I feel like I'm doing the opposite. So now that I know kind of how to operate an online business, I have some marketing chops or whatever now like what's going to impact the world the most? And it was you know, I was like, that's how I came up with the bikes because that's what I, you know, I believe in bikes as transportation for changing our cities and the environment. And, you know, just you know, I haven't... I sold my car a long time ago. It's like the bikes, how I get around. So even with my kids. So it's kind of just here's how I can impact the world and here's the way that I'm going to do it is, you know, through my own channels.

Tom: Yeah. We love that so, so much. It's huge. And I think you, you know, showing our cards a bit, you kind of nailed a belief that we hold near and dear, which is how do you stand out from a crowd of the same and just exactly what you said. That's when it comes down to brands. So and brand isn't just that visual thing. Right?

Aaron: Well, and that's an ongoing challenge, too. It's like, you know, where are my strengths and it's not in product, you know, like in the beginning, I wasn't sure if there was a market here at all. So, I mean I didn't reinvent the wheel from the ground up. I was like, OK, phase one, let's just get a product here and see if any what do people think about it. Because as soon as I start getting feedback, I can iterate and make improvements. But until I start getting these things in people's hands, I don't know what people want. Right. So I went to a factory, hey, they're already making bikes for the European market. Hey, I want I want one of those. But make X, Y, Z changes to it, whatever, and just get it out there and start selling as soon as possible. And I did that and now kind of through that and learning and making improvements and changes. OK, now we are actually looking at this deal with Aagot and other things that we have in the works behind the scenes. Like now we're going to design kind of our own stuff from the ground up, but we've already got this kind of brand built around it. Oh, man. There's there's a great book and I can't remember what it was, but basically there's two concepts. And one is like you can be a product innovator where you're always innovating new product, but whatever you do gets ripped off and knocked off every year or two and you're always constantly having to innovate and improve. And if that's what you're dependent on, at some point, you maybe you run out of ideas or you have an idea that falls flat or isn't successful. And if that's all you were hanging your hat on, you kind of run out. Right. But if you build a brand around what you're doing, the experience and everything else, it doesn't matter if somebody knocks you off. You know, I have knock offs right now, and the way they do business makes me laugh. And it's every time I read the reviews and customers say, oh, yeah, I talked to this company and then talked to you. It's like I just shake my head. It's like, how could anybody operate that way? Like, doesn't make it. And so, yeah, it's like, yeah, you might you might put a flashy website or, you know, you might make it, you know, things look good or whatever. But at the end of the day it's like if you're treating your customers like garbage then like I'm not really worried about you for the long term because you're not going to have that same staying power. Right. So, yeah, I have proven ideas for the product, but at the end of the day, it's like that's not where our strength is. Our strength is in our and our people. We have great people and our values, we have great values. And, you know, what do we believe in and what's our mission? Why are we doing this? You know, what's the you know, people our age, like more and more, they want to know what why a company exists. What are they doing? They want to know who they're doing business with. Like, you know, my wife's always looking like, is this company owned by a minority or is it like what's their purpose? Or, you know, do they have Black Lives Matter somewhere on their Instagram or, you know, all these little things that, you know, they're more and more concerned about who they're doing business with or, you know, they say it's ethically sourced. Is it really where are they getting their stuff from? So it's like all these things really, really matter now versus more than, you know, as long as your product is great and you have all these other things, then I think I think you're in a position to continue to to grow and be successful.

Tom: Couldn't agree more. I feel like this conversation touched on so many just beautiful, perfect parts in even in past episodes. So I'm sad.

Aaron: That's what you get when you talk to me. I just ramble and I go on soapboxes and it's like, this is it. It kind of draws people around me. It gets people excited and they stay around because I just I just go on and on and on. Once you get me talking, I don't stop. So it's and that's the classic like a business visionary, kind of syndrome, really. All these ideas bouncing around in my head and I gotta get them about.

Kyle: I have a question from the peanut gallery completely unrelated to this. Julia on our team wanted to know Shark Tank. Can I ask you about Shark Tank?

Aaron: Yeah ask away.

Kyle: Just let's just how was that? And I just feel like it was like I was just nervous for you.

Aaron: You know, I can't reveal much as far as the audition process go, just it is very thorough. They do a lot of vetting to make sure your business actually exists and is actually doing things. And you're not just a charlatan. Right? So at the end of the day, it's TV and it's entertainment. And if everyone was super polished and prepared, that's boring, right? That's not interesting. So there's definitely a mix of, like, entrepreneurs that are well on their way. And the guy with an idea that's half baked and I think they let them slip through the cracks anyways, knowing exactly how it's going to go, because it's going to be entertaining to watch, which is a little bit sadistic and makes me like I have mixed feelings about that. But I applied for the show having never watched it, like I actually never watched it until like I was already in the audition process. Like, OK, well, it looks like it might work out. I better figure out how this works. And so then it turned into two months of like every night I'm watching three episodes a night. I got a word doc that's like a mile long with every single question that's ever been asked to anyone. And like, if a shark wrote a book, I read the book. If they had a podcast, I listen to every episode of the podcast. Like, I mean, not only do I want to know every question they asked, I want to know every question they could possibly ask me knowing their personalities. And I had an answer and flashcards and everything. And there were some things they picked on more than I thought they would. And so I wasn't maybe prepared to go to war on certain things like they appeared to want to do. But and then some things that I was really prepared on, there was a non-issue to them. Like, you know, I thought they're going to beat me up on the price. And the first thing out of Kevin's mouth is like, I love high prices. Oh, well, I thought you were going to be the one to trash me. Right? So I'm kind of caught off guard because this became a non-issue. And I don't know. I don't remember if that made it to the cut or not. And then they beat me up on the distribution thing. It's like, yeah, OK. The Dutch bikes like, yeah, we're kind of like a distribution partner for them. But still it's like there's been other companies that have been on the show with very similar arrangements and the complete opposite reaction from the sharks. Oh yeah. We think the business model is great, whatever. So it's like, OK, they're not going have an issue with it. And then I wasn't prepared for that. But, you know, a lot of it's also an immense pressure and not everyone does well on stage. And so you might have prepared and you just crumble in the moment, you know, but I used to be a performing musician, right. So I've been on stage hundreds of times. And if anything, I'm like my brain becomes sharper in that environment. Like I'm able to recall, like in the hotel room, like I had a quarantine for two weeks before, like doing it, like they locked me in a hotel room. Basically, I couldn't leave. And they sent me room service three times a day. And I'm going crazy. Like, I can't focus. I can't think it's like I just want to get out and go for a run and and like, I'm asking myself questions like, why don't I know my revenue last month I can't remember and it's like I'm going nuts in this hotel room. But then, like on stage, it's like all like perfect recall. Like, I know everything. It's like it just came to me in that moment, whereas people sometimes I think have the opposite reaction where all they're thinking about is the lights and the camera crew over here that like you're supposed to not look at and but they're there and, you know, they're there and, you know, and the sharks are like coming at you and they're all shouting out the different questions at different times or at the same time, rather. And so it's like you're trying to manage this multifaceted thing under immense pressure, knowing that it's going to follow you around for the rest of your life. And I think it just is too much for people to handle. So you just end up not going and ends up not going well. And then I think I think there's also a selection where they know it's not going to go well and they took them anyways.

Tom: You got to have it.

Aaron: Yeah, like on my episode, there's like a Harry grab or something and it's like, oh my God, like this product, nobody's going to buy this product and it's just not going to go well. You've sold six of them. And it's like, oh God. But entertainment for sure. But I think even if you've got a good self-esteem and good kind of like, I don't know, just self-confidence, even in that environment where you've got a half baked idea and you haven't really gotten traction, you're still trying to figure it out if you're just humble and kind of just got, you know. Yeah. You know, I'm working on that or whatever, like, it can be a fun, kind of entertaining, positive experience. But if you just get dejected and take those things and get all sad about it, it's like, you know, or defensive about it well now it's just like you kind of look like this person doesn't have it all together. Whereas, you know, we could have maybe related to you as somebody who's still trying to figure it out and instead, like, you know, the producers only have the material that you give them to work with. So they're going to you know, what I do like about Shark Tank, though is it's probably the most real reality TV gets. Like there's one take, there's no redos. You go out and it's just cameras on and anything that happens is fair game. So, you know, it's like water. Oh, yeah, over water. And then you're out of there. It's like, wow, you know, it's like and you know, it can go poorly or even. No idea, so it's it's like this wild ride that was like, really exciting to do, and then and then you do it and you don't even know if it's going to be aired because they don't air everything that they filmed. You know, they they film extra. Right. So then it's like I didn't find out till, like, two weeks before it aired that it was actually going to be aired. Oh, yes.

Tom: Thanks, Aaron.

Tom: In Aaron's eyes, the customer's always his North Star. He's hyper focused on ensuring that they feel heard and have a direct connection with the brand.

Kyle: To do so, he's implemented a system that proactively seeks to solve any customer problems. So the only thing they need to do is sit back, relax and enjoy the magic that is Bunch Bikes.

Tom: Aaron, thanks for taking the time to chat with us and share your recipes for success with the Commerce Chefs community.

Kyle: And that's a wrap - our first ever long form interview released into the world. We hope you found it helpful in getting some new ideas to make the brand new lead even better.

Tom: And if you're looking for even more insights and recipes for success, make sure to follow us on social @CommerceChefs.

Kyle: And remember to join the Commerce Chefs community launching this fall.

Tom: Save your spot and join now at CommerceChefs.com/Community.

Kyle: In the meantime, we're currently deciding which spicy interview to share with you next. Make sure to tune back in on August 5th to find out who it is.

Tom: And lastly, if you like this episode and you want to support us, (you know you want to!) make sure to hit the subscribe button and leave us a five star rating and review. Until next time. This has been a dash of Tom.

Kyle: And a pinch of Kyle and a few cups of Aaron.

Tom: Yeah, sure. We'll be cooking with you in two weeks.